Reformed tradition (and most orthodox Xnity) says that from our vantage point, it often appears that he does, and the Scriptures even say, speaking again from human vantage points, that he “repents” of previous decisions. Yet God’s eternal decrees (which are hidden in his own secret counsels) will always stand and can never be altered. Nothing could surprise him enough—no contingincy—that could offer him an occasion upon which changing his mind and altering his eternal counsels would be desirous of him.
That wasn’t a very postmodern answer, I know. Textbook. Boring. But there’s what I believe.
If the question was “can he change his mind?” I would have to say yes, because he is God. BUt the question is does he. I agree with Andy, who states that from our perspective it seems he does. However, from God’s persepective I am not sure. I see Andy’s point above very well. I guess I am not sure that we will ever know this side of heaven. I like the idea that he does not and i like the idea that somehow he does respond to what we do and change his mind.
Good thoughts, D. I’m also interested in how you said that you “LIKE the idea that he does not.” I LIKE it too. It doesn’t prove anything, of course. But if I’m right that the Bible teaches that God doesn’t change his mind, then I believe that there’s also much more comfort (hence, I “LIKE” the idea) in that fact.
Open theism (the school that thinks God doesn’t know the future or can do anything conclusive about it, denying his supreme sovereignty) sometimes touts itself as being the more comforting answer to questions like “why do bad things happen to good people?” But I don’t find that comforting at all.
If you’re interested, there’s a good, shorter, easy book by one of my profs called If God Already Knows, Why Pray?, which deals with this issue through the lens of the Lord’s prayer and what he is trying to teach us by having us pray it just as he himself did. The author is Douglas Kelley (or Kelly)
By the way, D, when you rephrased the question to “can he change his mind” and said “yes, b/c he’s God”….
I’d offer that it isn’t a matter of what God has the POWER to do, but what is in his very NATURE to do. If we elevate God’s POWER (what he CAN do) over his NATURE (who he IS), then we could end up confusing ourselves and goofing things up a bit.
To frame this point in another question: “Can God sin?”
You can see how silly of a question this is. If we think in terms of POWER first, then we would have to say something stupid like “he can do whatever he wants: He’s God, after all!”
But when we answer the question in terms of God’s NATURE, then we have to say “No, he can only do whatever is consistent with who he is. If he sinned, he wouldn’t be God anymore.”
I’m not sure if that helps us think through this issue any better, but there it is.
i am not super intellectual, especially when it comes to spiritual matters. there is one truth and that’s all i need. i am still holding firm that God doesn’t change His mind. i’d be scared if He did. i look back at the past two and a half years of my life and shudder at the thought that He could turn back and say, “oh look at all you have learned, at the children you have met, how your marriage has grown, etc. well, too bad, i don’t want it this way.” not that that’s a perfect example of how Him changing His mind would work, but i don’t like the idea all the way around. He doesn’t need to change His mind. if we are living right by following Him, He will change our minds to mesh with and follow His.
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April 4, 2006 at 2:05 am
Andy
Ben,
HI!
Reformed tradition (and most orthodox Xnity) says that from our vantage point, it often appears that he does, and the Scriptures even say, speaking again from human vantage points, that he “repents” of previous decisions. Yet God’s eternal decrees (which are hidden in his own secret counsels) will always stand and can never be altered. Nothing could surprise him enough—no contingincy—that could offer him an occasion upon which changing his mind and altering his eternal counsels would be desirous of him.
That wasn’t a very postmodern answer, I know. Textbook. Boring. But there’s what I believe.
April 4, 2006 at 6:53 pm
kirsten smith
no. at least i don’t think He does. why would He need to? it’s all His anyway, all here for Him.
wonder what others think.
April 12, 2006 at 6:13 pm
Brian Megilligan
no. and this after much thought.
April 23, 2006 at 5:46 pm
derrak ostovic
If the question was “can he change his mind?” I would have to say yes, because he is God. BUt the question is does he.
I agree with Andy, who states that from our perspective it seems he does.
However, from God’s persepective I am not sure. I see Andy’s point above very well.
I guess I am not sure that we will ever know this side of heaven.
I like the idea that he does not and i like the idea that somehow he does respond to what we do and change his mind.
derrak
April 27, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Andy
Good thoughts, D. I’m also interested in how you said that you “LIKE the idea that he does not.” I LIKE it too. It doesn’t prove anything, of course. But if I’m right that the Bible teaches that God doesn’t change his mind, then I believe that there’s also much more comfort (hence, I “LIKE” the idea) in that fact.
Open theism (the school that thinks God doesn’t know the future or can do anything conclusive about it, denying his supreme sovereignty) sometimes touts itself as being the more comforting answer to questions like “why do bad things happen to good people?” But I don’t find that comforting at all.
If you’re interested, there’s a good, shorter, easy book by one of my profs called If God Already Knows, Why Pray?, which deals with this issue through the lens of the Lord’s prayer and what he is trying to teach us by having us pray it just as he himself did. The author is Douglas Kelley (or Kelly)
April 27, 2006 at 3:08 pm
Andy
By the way, D, when you rephrased the question to “can he change his mind” and said “yes, b/c he’s God”….
I’d offer that it isn’t a matter of what God has the POWER to do, but what is in his very NATURE to do. If we elevate God’s POWER (what he CAN do) over his NATURE (who he IS), then we could end up confusing ourselves and goofing things up a bit.
To frame this point in another question: “Can God sin?”
You can see how silly of a question this is. If we think in terms of POWER first, then we would have to say something stupid like “he can do whatever he wants: He’s God, after all!”
But when we answer the question in terms of God’s NATURE, then we have to say “No, he can only do whatever is consistent with who he is. If he sinned, he wouldn’t be God anymore.”
I’m not sure if that helps us think through this issue any better, but there it is.
Good *talking* with you guys.
May 2, 2006 at 12:10 am
kirsten smith
i am not super intellectual, especially when it comes to spiritual matters. there is one truth and that’s all i need. i am still holding firm that God doesn’t change His mind. i’d be scared if He did. i look back at the past two and a half years of my life and shudder at the thought that He could turn back and say, “oh look at all you have learned, at the children you have met, how your marriage has grown, etc. well, too bad, i don’t want it this way.” not that that’s a perfect example of how Him changing His mind would work, but i don’t like the idea all the way around. He doesn’t need to change His mind. if we are living right by following Him, He will change our minds to mesh with and follow His.